ZS9J9PZ2JJ E24: Kitty Genovese - Headlines, Horror, and Half-Truths - The House of Syx

Episode 24

E24: Kitty Genovese - Headlines, Horror, and Half-Truths

38 people heard her screams… and did nothing.

That’s the story most of us have heard.

For decades, the murder of Kitty Genovese has been used as the defining example of the bystander effect—a case that supposedly proved people will stand by and do nothing in the face of violence.

But the truth is more complicated than that.

In this episode, we take a closer look at what really happened on that night in 1964. We walk through the timeline, the witness accounts, and the investigation that led to the arrest of Winston Mosley. Along the way, we challenge the narrative that has defined this case for generations.

Because the story most people know… isn’t the whole story.

And at the center of it all is Kitty Genovese—a real person with a life, relationships, and a future that was taken from her.

This isn’t just about what happened.

It’s about how we remember it—and why that matters.

🕯️ Episode Chapters

  • The Story We Were Told
  • America in 1964
  • Who Kitty Was
  • That Night Begins
  • The Attack & Aftermath
  • What People Actually Saw
  • Truth, Justice, and Legacy

📌 Connect With Us

Follow and subscribe to The House of Syx wherever you listen to podcasts.

📺 YouTube

📱 TikTok, Facebook, Instagram

📩 thehouseofsyx@gmail.com

New episodes drop every other Tuesday.

🔎 Keywords

Kitty Genovese, bystander effect, true crime podcast, true crime story, crime history, 1960s New York, Winston Mosley, real crime case, psychology, true crime discussion

Transcript
Speaker:

38 people heard her screams and did nothing. That's the story. It's been repeated for decades in

Speaker:

classrooms, in textbooks, in quiet conversations about human nature, . A young woman alone in the early hours

Speaker:

of the morning. Attacked calling out for help and all around her lights flickering on shadows at Windows,

Speaker:

people listening, and then silence.

Speaker:

It is a story that's been used to explain who we are at our worst. But what if that story isn't true? What if

Speaker:

the real story is more complicated, more human, and far more unsettling? Because beneath the myth, there was a

Speaker:

life, a real woman, and a night that didn't happen the way we've been told.

Speaker:

Welcome to The House of Syx. Tonight we present headlines, horror, and half truths.

Speaker:

​

Jenn:

Welcome to The House of Syx. I'm Jen.

Jared:

I'm Jared,

Jenn:

and we are having a new vibe up in here. Yes. Like sexy vibes for middle aged people.

Jared:

Whatever works, man. Whatever gets the job done, as they say.

Jenn:

Right. So what are we

Jared:

talking about today?

Jenn:

Oh,

Jared:

I'm ready.

Jenn:

I'm ready. Oh, okay. I am going to tell you about a case that is one of the first ones that got me

Jenn:

interested in true crime.

Jared:

There you go.

Jenn:

Yep. This one is, uh, sad, but it is really interesting and it is also the case that brought about

Jenn:

the bystander effect. People think of as the bystander effect. Have you ever heard of that?

Jared:

I actually haven't. That's where the, I actually haven't, no.

Jenn:

Oh, well that just

Jared:

the perplexed look on my face should have given that

Jenn:

away.

Jenn:

Yeah. So that just tanked my intro, man.

Jared:

Did it really?

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jared:

We gotta do something else then.

Jenn:

Nope,

Jared:

I gotta go. Yeah, I know

Jenn:

what

Jared:

that,

Jenn:

Nope, absolutely not. We are going with it. And, uh, yeah. So it is a, it is a case that is used in

Jenn:

psychology classes, articles, casual conversations, not ours. We've obviously never talked about it.

Jared:

Not mine, not mine, not mine at all.

Jenn:

Right, exactly.

Jared:

I've used the word bystander. I've used the word effect in to

Jenn:

not

Jared:

together.

Jenn:

Together, ever. Okay. Well. Congratulations. Yeah. This is for you. Yeah. We're here to educate

Jenn:

everybody, anybody, and

Jared:

especially me.

Jenn:

And definitely, definitely you. Yeah. Yeah. So the story goes like this.

Jenn:

A young woman is attacked outside of her apartment in New York City. She screams for help. Dozens of people

Jenn:

hear her. No one steps in. No one calls the police. No one intervenes. No one helps. Or at least that's how

Jenn:

the story gets told. Ooh,

Jared:

sounds like New York.

Jared:

I'm joking.

Jenn:

New Yorkers.

Jared:

I'm joking. New Yorkers,

Jenn:

we have maybe people listening to us in New York.

Jared:

We should,

Jenn:

hopefully we have people listening to us in Vietnam this week. We had a huge spike in listeners in

Jenn:

Vietnam, so shout out guys. How you doing? Welcome. We're glad to have ya. I never say the word ya.

Jared:

No,

Jenn:

I just did.

Jenn:

But we are happy that you are here. So anyways, , tonight we are going to talk about the murder of Kitty

Jenn:

Genovese.

Jared:

Okay?

Jenn:

Okay. More importantly, we're gonna talk about the story that has been built around her for decades

Jenn:

and why so much of what we think about that night is not exactly true. Okay. Bubu, boom.

Jenn:

Yeah. Yeah. I

Jared:

missed the cue. Yeah.

Jenn:

Yeah. He's been working outside in the yard, guys fighting bees and ant fighting them. It's a good fight.

Jenn:

We're gonna lose because they are everywhere. We are being overrun in Georgia in the spring, in 120 year old

Jenn:

haunted maybe house. It's not haunted and I'm really trying to get it.

Jenn:

So if you wanna have a seance and bring some ghosts up in here, open up a portal, let me know. Let's go

Jenn:

anyways, so let's get back to this, to Kitty Genovese. 'cause that's why we're here. Uh, not whatever that

Jenn:

was. Uh, so let's, let's go back, right. We're going to step back in time to 1964, and this is not the 1960s.

Jenn:

People tend to romanticize. We're not all Woodstock and peace signs up in here. That's still a few years away.

Jenn:

Okay. We're, we're in the earlier part and we are in a country of transition and they're not really handling

Jenn:

it very well. I mean, humans don't really like change. That's what I hear. Uh, the Civil Rights Movement is

Jenn:

forcing a national reckoning.

Jenn:

There are protests, arrests, violence in the streets. It's on the news, it's in people's living rooms, and

Jenn:

trust in institutions is starting to crack, and it hasn't yet broken like not like it has today. Just

Jenn:

kidding. This isn't a political podcast. Um, New York City is especially changing. Fast post-war growth has

Jenn:

packed neighborhoods with people.

Jenn:

Apartment buildings are stacked on top of each other, thousands of lives overlapping in a small space. Look

Jenn:

New York City people, new Yorkers, that's what they call them. I don't know how you do it, man.

Jenn:

No.

Jenn:

We're living in the sticks of Georgia and there are still too many people here. I cannot imagine.

Jenn:

Like even when we visit the city, and we have a couple of times, when was the last time we were there? Five

Jenn:

years ago.

Jared:

Probably

Jenn:

something like that. Not during COVID. It was,

Jared:

that was pre COVID as crazy

Jenn:

as, as it is. It doesn't seem like it COVID, it was pre COVID, so six, seven years ago.

Jared:

Right, right.

Jenn:

Um, the city just feels like heavy to me.

Jenn:

Like you just feel the weight of all that concrete and people,

Jared:

people that live in New York are made for it. I am not, no. I don't mind visiting. I think that I,

Jared:

there are certain aspects of Alah, but if you live there, you're. You're, you're a rare breed man.

Jenn:

And they say that New Yorkers are not friendly.

Jenn:

And I do not think that that's true. No, that's not. Look at, I've never found that to be true. I don't look

Jenn:

at now they have places to go and you better get out of the way.

Jared:

I mean, I've, I've been in bumper car situations in the taxi and that was interesting. But beyond that,

Jenn:

those taxi drivers, that's some crazy shit right there.

Jenn:

What are they do like, anyways, we're track. I sorry. I'm sorry. We're track. Sorry. I'm sorry. But yeah.

Jenn:

Yeah. Last time we went to New York and I love like the city and the shows and the culture and the food. Ooh.

Jenn:

Was some good stuff. But anyways, New York is a great place. I just, just don't wanna live there because that

Jenn:

is

Jared:

No,

Jenn:

no, that's bonkers.

Jenn:

You can get right out town

Jared:

with that. I'll get New York before you could. And that's saying just the most in the world.

Jenn:

The answer is no.

Jared:

Yeah,

Jenn:

also cold. I don't do that. It's too cold in Georgia in the wintertime, if that tells you something.

Jenn:

No. Mm-hmm. No. So I don't know where I was. Oh, people packed on people, right?

Jenn:

Um, so proximity doesn't really mean connection though. Uh, you could live feet away from someone and not even

Jenn:

know their name. Here's something through the wall. Assume it wasn't your business. Cities were becoming

Jenn:

places where people learned quietly to mind your own damn business. And I can respect that.

Jared:

Sure. But if I hear things through the wall, it's all of my business. 'cause I'm gonna be listening.

Jenn:

Oh, I'm gonna be like, oh, what? What'd she say? What?

Jenn:

That's what I, I like gossip. I don't wanna be the gossip, but I wanna Oh yeah. I wanna be part of it.

Jenn:

That's, that's definitely for sure. So. There is something else sitting underneath all of this and the

Jenn:

very rigid idea of what was normal. Mm-hmm. Because in 1964, being gay was not just socially frowned upon, it

Jenn:

was criminalized, which is G.

Jared:

Yeah.

Jenn:

Get outta here. Right. With that, that just pisses me off. But this. My anger is not the point of

Jenn:

this story in New York laws around quote unquote disorderly conduct and so-called moral offenses. Were

Jenn:

routinely used to target gay men and women. Bars could be rated, people could be arrested simply for who they

Jenn:

were or for being in the wrong place with the wrong person at the wrong time.

Jenn:

There were no protections, no public acceptance, no safety net. So if you were in a same sex relationship.

Jenn:

You did not talk about that openly.

Jenn:

That is the world that this story unfolds in and it, and it matters because it shaped how people saw, heard

Jenn:

and responded to what happened that night.

Jenn:

Sure.

Jenn:

Kitty Genovese was born in 1935 in Brooklyn, the oldest of five children in an Italian American family.

Jenn:

She grew up in pretty typical working class household, close knit, busy, nothing particularly unusual for the

Jenn:

time, but like a lot of families in the city, things changed after witnessing a violent crime in their

Jenn:

neighborhood. Her parents made the decision to move the family out to Connecticut.

Jenn:

Looking for something safer. Kitty did not follow. As she got older, she gravitated back towards New York

Jenn:

City. She liked the energy, the independence, the sense that you could build something of your own there.

Jenn:

Right? By her late twenties, she was living in Queens and working as a bar manager, which I was kind of

Jenn:

surprised maybe.

Jenn:

I feel like we have not. I don't know. It just, it feels like a woman in her early twenties being a bar

Jenn:

manager in the sixties. Hey, US girls, we can do it all.

Jenn:

Jesus.

Jenn:

All right. It was not glamorous work, but it was steady. She was known for being reliable, sharp, good

Jenn:

with people. The kind of person who could handle a busy night. Remember faces, keep things running. She was

Jenn:

good at her job. She had plans. She had a life that was hers. And that's the part that's easy to lose in

Jenn:

stories like this because.

Jenn:

Before she became a headline, she was just a person trying to find her way in the world, she was looking at

Jenn:

that bright future, whatever that may be. Okay. She was not a symbol and she was not a lesson that she later

Jenn:

became, I said early twenties. She's 28. Uh, her face, she, the pictures of her, and hopefully I can find one

Jenn:

that's in the public domain. She's just, she looks really young.

Jared:

Yep.

Jenn:

She just looks very young.

Jenn:

Getting into it. March 13th, 1964. It's a Friday night rolling into early Saturday morning in Queens, New

Jenn:

York. Kitty has been working late. She managed a bar in Hollis, which is about a few miles from where she lived

Jenn:

in Kew Gardens. It was not unusual for her. Late nights were, obviously, it's part of being bar manager, right?

Jenn:

, She had to close up, handle customers, make sure everything was settled before heading out. Sometime

Jenn:

around two 30 in the morning, she locked up and left for the night. She was driving her little red fiat. How

Jenn:

cute is that? The roads at that hour were quiet but not empty.

Jenn:

This is the city that never sleeps, right. , It was a short drive back to her apartment on Austin Street. She

Jenn:

pulled into the parking area near her, building a spot. Just steps away from her apartment. This is not some

Jenn:

isolated alley or unfamiliar street. Okay. This was a, this was a lit area, parking area.

Jenn:

, There is no indication that she felt weird or something was wrong. She's just parked a car, stepped

Jenn:

out, closed the door, and walking towards her apartment.

Jenn:

She becomes aware of somebody walking behind her and she starts walking a little bit faster, and at some

Jenn:

point she breaks into a run. She does not make it inside before she can get to safety. She is caught and

Jenn:

stabbed twice in the back.

Jenn:

Okay.

Jenn:

The wounds are serious, but not immediately fatal. She, she can still, she's still conscious.

Jenn:

She cried out for help. And trying to stay alive, wounded. She keeps moving. She runs towards the door.

Jenn:

Now this is the part that matters because she's trying to get away from it. And after those first stab wounds,

Jenn:

She reaches a vestibule area at the back of the building. It's an entry space, partially enclosed, but

Jenn:

not secured. It's not, it's not locked, , and it's not fully inside, but it, so it does not separate her from,

Jenn:

from outside.

Jenn:

She stops there. And for a brief moment there is distance between her and the person who attacked her,

Jenn:

but he returns. At this time, there's pretty much nowhere to go and she is attacked again at close range.

Jenn:

And this time the assault is prolonged. She is stabbed multiple times and , the injuries are severe and

Jenn:

cumulative. She remains conscious for at least part of this second phase, aware of what is happening to her.

Jenn:

Uh, and at this point she is. Sexually assaulted through all the stabbing and everything.

Jenn:

The attack continues until she is critically injured and she's no longer able to, to fight back. And at this

Jenn:

point, the assailant goes away and she's left in the vestibule at the rear of the building on the floor, ,

Jenn:

alone. And so this space is dim and enclosed. At this point she is still alive, though there is a period of

Jenn:

time, several minutes where she remains there conscious, at least intermittently.

Jenn:

The injuries at this point and blood loss are significant. , But she is still trying to hold on at

Jenn:

some point here a neighbor, Sophia Farr. Had heard something and knew something was wrong. So she came

Jenn:

down to the vestibule, found kitty, and stayed with her until emergency services arrive. She stayed there

Jenn:

holding her.

Jenn:

They were friends by the way, , by the time that police and medical personnel reached the scene, kitty is in

Jenn:

critical condition and she's transported to the hospital. However, she dies shortly after her arrival

Jenn:

from these very severe injuries. Now that's all the bad stuff. I mean the worst part outta the way.

Jenn:

'cause I hate talking about those things. I know this is a True crime podcast and I like should be all into

Jenn:

this, but like, ugh, that's just terrible to talk about these things. , Before we go any further, we need to

Jenn:

talk about the story that most people actually know, because for decades, this case has been defined by a

Jenn:

single idea that 38 people watched a woman being murdered and did nothing.

Jenn:

The New York Times published an article that would shape how this case and human behavior would be

Jenn:

understood for decades. The headline read 38, who Saw Murder, didn't Call the police. That was the whole

Jenn:

headline, and it took a complicated, fragmented event and turned it into a simple moral story.

Jenn:

How 38 people let one victim just die. Mm-hmm. No help. Mm-hmm. No help in New York City of all places, which

Jenn:

was the den of sin.

Jared:

Did 10 of sin. Okay.

Jenn:

I mean, it could be. Yeah. Yep. So as you can imagine, this very shocking headline spread. , The

Jenn:

article described witnesses who watched from their windows as the attack unfolded, suggesting that people

Jenn:

observed a crime and chose not to intervene, not to call and not to act.

Jenn:

And that version of the story did not just stay in the news, it became something way bigger. Is taught in

Jenn:

psychology. Classes used as evidence of the bystander effect cited as proof of what happens when

Jenn:

responsibility is shared and no one takes it. It became this cautionary tale about humans at our worst.

Jenn:

You know, I think there is something to the bystander effect just a little bit, because there is a reason

Jenn:

that, and maybe it's because of this, I'm not sure, but. Like in emergencies, they tell you if you go to

Jenn:

help somebody and you can't call because you're going to, to render aid, that you should point at somebody

Jenn:

and say, you call 9 1 1.

Jared:

Instead of going,

Jenn:

instead of saying

Jared:

anyone,

Jenn:

somebody call 9 1 1. You point and pick a person and you say,

Jared:

don't call 9 9 1 though, like you just said, call nine.

Jenn:

Do I know emergency services number? I tell you I do because I've called them I think three times in my

Jenn:

whole life. I have called emergency services,

Jared:

but yes, I agree with you.

Jared:

You're more, um, human nature be told what to do instead of just an open call.

Jenn:

Pick somebody, an open call. Somebody specifically. Yeah, that's right, because they say

Jenn:

collectively, if you just shout, call 9 1 1, that everybody will assume that somebody else is going to

Jenn:

call.

Jared:

I wanna be that.

Jenn:

Oh no, I called, there was a fire in our neighborhood one time and I was like, I'm calling like,

Jenn:

I don't care if they get 75 calls.

Jenn:

There's a fire.

Jared:

That's the way it should be.

Jenn:

Yeah, exactly. And we watched a neighbor's shed go up and I'm pretty sure that they said it for

Jenn:

insurance purposes. I'm just saying.

Jared:

I figured, yeah, I know what you're talking about now.

Jenn:

Yeah,

Jared:

figured you'd call, you know the firefighters anytime you could just to get 'em to the house.

Jenn:

Oh yes. I'd set my car on fire in the middle of the street to get some firefighters out there. Just

Jenn:

kidding. I love you, honey. Alright, back on track guys. Okay, so here is the problem. That story was not

Jenn:

entirely true. Not in the way that it was told, not in the way that it was remembered and not the way that it

Jenn:

is still repeated today.

Jenn:

'cause humans, we like a good story and we'd rather make some shit up than tell the dang truth. I got

Jenn:

really southern there for a minute. Did you hear that? It's all, it's alright. Woohoo. Alright. So instead of

Jenn:

the headline, let's walk through what people actually experienced. Okay. Because when you go back, you gotta

Jenn:

look at the actual accounts, the actual timelines, and the actual people involved, and you do not find 38

Jenn:

people watching a single event incorrect.

Jenn:

This is far more complicated than that, and honestly, it, you know, it tracks okay, just how humans deal.

Jenn:

When investigators and journalists went back years later looking at police reports, interviews, testimony,

Jenn:

a very different picture emerged. There were not 38 people watching a single event. I don't even know if 38

Jenn:

people were actually found that heard or saw something.

Jenn:

Right? Right. In total, , there were scattered witnesses, hearing and seeing fragments of different.

Jenn:

Parts of the event. So let's walk through what people actually experienced during the first part of the

Jenn:

attack, the two stop situation. , Multiple residents heard kitty's screams. She did cry out. One of them was

Jenn:

Robert Moser from his apartment.

Jenn:

He shouted down, let that girl alone from a. Mm. And that is consistently reported across multiple accounts

Jenn:

here. And this matters because the attacker stopped. That's they think what made him stop the initial, the

Jenn:

first attack. Attack, and he left the area. , So this immediately breaks the central myth because somebody

Jenn:

did intervene.

Jenn:

That is a way of intervening and it changed the outcome at least temporarily. Also, bearing in mind that at

Jenn:

this point in time, 9 1 1 did not exist. Right. You had to call an actual number. Yeah. Like a seven digit

Jenn:

number to get the, the police.

Jared:

Yeah.

Jenn:

Right. One witness, Joseph Fink appears to have had a clearer view than most during the attack.

Jenn:

Later reviews suggest he may have understood the seriousness of what was happening, but in the moment

Jenn:

it's not really fully documented because it gets a little bit uncomfortable here. Even if he did

Jenn:

understand what was going on, there is no evidence that he intervened in any direct way. He didn't make any

Jenn:

calls.

Jenn:

He didn't shout out of his window. That's, yeah, that's not good.

Jared:

Yep.

Jenn:

Because when police interviewed him, his account of it is that he saw somebody being attacked. Ew.

Jared:

Yeah, that's, I've got nothing.

Jenn:

I don't like that. I've got nothing good now, to be fair, we don't know his personal situation, anything

Jenn:

about him.

Jenn:

I, that feels bad though.

Jenn:

There are accounts from later reviews of police records that a call to the police was made after the first

Jenn:

attack. The records are spotty at best, but a call was made. That's all we know. A witness reported that his

Jenn:

father contacted authorities saying a woman had been beaten and was staggering around.

Jenn:

The message was incomplete and maybe not fully. The, the urgency wasn't fully understood by the police

Jenn:

because it did not, uh, convey that a lethal attack was in unfolding, and as a result, the police didn't come.

Jared:

Yeah.

Jenn:

And this is where. The myth really collapses here because many people didn't understand what they were

Jenn:

hearing at all.

Jenn:

Remember, this is New York City apartment buildings all over the place. People coming and going at all

Jenn:

different times, windows facing different parts of the street, or maybe not even the street at all.

Jared:

Lots of yelling, lots of honking.

Jenn:

I mean, you, they. Some people might not have even understood what was going around it going on.

Jenn:

It could have been a domestic dispute, a drunk argument. Uh, anyways, the shouting stopped. People

Jenn:

didn't hear anymore, and so most assumed that the situation had ended and. People just went about their

Jenn:

business and I think that that matters because hearing a scream through a wall at 3:00 AM is not the same as

Jenn:

watching a murder happen right in front of you.

Jenn:

Those are two very different things, and also I have to imagine a lot of people didn't even hear it because

Jenn:

they were asleep. Yep. It's 3:00 AM I don't hear shit when I'm asleep. I mean, a bomb could go off next door.

Jenn:

I.

Jenn:

I gotta hear it.

Jared:

True story

Jenn:

facts until I do hear something and then I am the most awake.

Jenn:

Yeah, Now we move forward to the second attack, and this is more contained and even fewer people are in a

Jenn:

position to see anything because now it was inside of that little vestibule. Right? One of the witnesses is

Jenn:

Carl Ross. Ross opens his door and sees Kitty in the vestibule later reconstructions. Again, supported by

Jenn:

reporting.

Jenn:

Like in that New Yorker article, I don't even know, suggest that he understood what was happening. He may

Jenn:

have even witnessed as she was getting attacked. , And he closes his door. He sees her in the vestibule no

Jenn:

matter at what point during the attack, right, that he sees her, he opens his door, he sees her.

Jenn:

He closes the door and he does nothing.

Jared:

Yeah, you're a bad person.

Jenn:

This is the worst. You're a bad person. Okay. He later said he was afraid. There is also speculation

Jenn:

that Carl was gay and he did not want to become involved with the police in any given way. And like, I

Jenn:

get that man because this is at a point in time when that is criminalized, but also.

Jenn:

He was her friend.

Jared:

Yep.

Jenn:

He saw her in the halls and stuff and said, hello, and he sees her bleeding in the vestibule and he

Jenn:

closes his door. There is even this, there's this, uh, true crime show called A Crime to Remember. They did.

Jenn:

They did this case and they showed him open the door while she's getting attacked and then he quietly closes

Jenn:

it and then he leans against the door and he cries Now.

Jenn:

I don't think that happened.

Jared:

Yeah. Now he would've gotten outta there,

Jenn:

but he also just closed the door. He actually opened the door and saw her and then closed it. Right.

Jared:

Right. But he would, he wouldn't hung around and cry. Got time for that. Gotta go.

Jenn:

In any event, , no matter what, there is not 38 people doing nothing. And there were not even 38

Jenn:

witnesses. So it was one person making a very consequential decision, and that is Sophia Ferra

Jenn:

because. Ferra did hear something. She knew it wasn't something normal. She left her apartment. She left her

Jenn:

son in the apartment by himself and came down to the vestibule, found Kitty alive and held her and stayed

Jenn:

with her until help arrived.

Jenn:

So somebody did intervene, somebody did do something. So. That alone makes the whole story a bunch of

Jenn:

bullshit that was in the newspaper. Just some newspaper trying to sell stories to people that'll buy it and buy

Jenn:

their bullshit, and I don't like that.

Jared:

Yep.

Jenn:

I don't appreciate that one bit. The New Yorker.

Jenn:

This was in 1964. This is not today. I'm not saying that, doesn't that, that newspapers don't

Jenn:

sensationalize stuff anymore today? Because I mean, please, of course they do, but .

Jenn:

All right now, in the days after the murder, police began working the case. The only way that you could in

Jenn:

1964. You gotta go door to door, and you gotta take the statements trying to piece together a timeline from so

Jenn:

many fragments. There was no immediate suspect. Tied directly to the scene. However, five days later on

Jenn:

March 18th, everything shifted.

Jenn:

A man named Winston Mosley was arrested, but not for murder. He was arrested for burglary. A neighbor had

Jenn:

seen him removing a television from a home and called police officers responded they stopped him and they

Jenn:

booked him Dano. He's going, he's going downtown to the clink. Okay. Nobody talks like that. Um, but you know,

Jenn:

at this point he's just another burglary suspect.

Jenn:

I mean, you know, I, I like TVs too. I have one. I did not steal it or take it out at somebody's house. He

Jenn:

did. But anyways, , during questioning, detectives pushed a little further. They're like, what else have

Jenn:

you been doing? Okay. I would also like to note, at this point in time, I can imagine that there was a

Jenn:

little bit more pressure on him because.

Jenn:

Moley is a black man.

Jared:

Hmm.

Jenn:

There is absolutely no evidence that he was pressured because he was black. I was just making an

Jenn:

observation. Right. Okay. Clearly. Moseley had no criminal record for violent offenses. He was married,

Jenn:

he had children. He worked a steady job on paper. This, this guy's, he's fine. He's a regular guy.

Jenn:

Joe, what's his name? Moseley. What's his real name? Winston. He's just a regular Winston. I gotta, anyways,

Jenn:

so. They kept him in interrogation for several hours and he starts talking. He confesses to not just one

Jenn:

murder, not two, he confesses to three murders, including Kitty Genevieve, right? Uh, he described

Jenn:

following her that night, the first attack, leaving when he heard somebody shouting and then returning and

Jenn:

doing all of the horrible.

Jenn:

Rude things that he did to her. He just tells him all the whole thing, all the details.

Jared:

Didn't see that coming.

Jenn:

Uh, he could have kept his mouth shut and it wouldn't have been anything, and I think he just felt

Jenn:

like bragging.

Jared:

Yep,

Jenn:

this fucker.

Jenn:

The details matter here because everything that he confessed to, aligned with what investigators had

Jenn:

already begun to piece together from the scene and witness accounts. He didn't stop there. He also

Jenn:

confessed to the murders of Annie Mae Johnson and Barbara Crawl, who were both murdered the year before.

Jenn:

Those cases followed a similar pattern of burglary, assault, and murder. And while they did not receive the

Jenn:

same attention, these are real victims and I don't know a whole lot about. But I did at least wanna mention

Jenn:

their names because it's something they were real lives that are often left out. At one point Mosley

Jenn:

accompanied the police back to Q Gardens and walked them through what happened step by step.

Jenn:

First of all, ew. That's just, I'm sure from an investigative standpoint, that's has a lot of value,

Jenn:

but it feels so performative. Yeah,

Jared:

sure.

Jenn:

Just ew. Sure. I hope the police got what they got, you know? But still that guy, Winston, that is

Jenn:

even your real name. Uh, yeah. So Moseley later said he had gone out that night looking for a victim.

Jenn:

He was looking, he was feeling murdery

Jared:

little hungry,

Jenn:

and he happened upon her. And he targeted kitty because she was alone and she was a little bitty woman.

Jenn:

Mm-hmm. Like she was like my size woman. She was short and petite and tiny. Ugh. Detailed confession, con

Jenn:

confession.

Jenn:

Detailed a confession. Here he was charged. Tried and later convicted. Initially, he was sentenced to death.

Jenn:

That sentence was later reduced to life in prison after changes to New York, new York's death penalty laws.

Jared:

Yeah.

Jenn:

Look, you know we've talked about the death pin on the before. Yeah, yeah.

Jenn:

I'm not sure I even believe in it. I'm really on the fence about it. Like I think that some people do not

Jenn:

deserve to breathe air because they are monsters. Yeah. He seems like a monstery kind of monster guy.

Jared:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenn:

That's pretty bad.

Jared:

Yeah. He had intent,

Jenn:

but. Still, he spent the le, the rest of his life incarcerated.

Jenn:

And in 2016, more than 50 years after the murder, Winston Mosley died in prison. And honestly, I just

Jenn:

don't care what happened to him.

Jared:

I know.

Jenn:

Fuck that guy.

Jared:

You're not supposed to.

Jenn:

He lived 50 years in prison just. Probably working out and eating is sad. Prison food and walking

Jenn:

outside in the sun, that bastard.

Jenn:

Are you looking at me like that?

Jared:

No, I mean, yeah.

Jenn:

Anyways, so here's the thing. We have no theories because we know who did it. Like there is zero question

Jenn:

about who did it. It's Winston, this fucker did it. So no doubt about that. What became complicated is

Jenn:

everything that was built around this.

Jenn:

So this is where we come back to Kitty Genovese because for decades she has been attached to a theory, a

Jenn:

headline, a lesson about human behavior and how we're all shit. Okay? But first of all, we're, we're not,

Jenn:

we're humans are not shit. There's some great humans out there that do a lot of great things, but also Kitty

Jenn:

Genovese.

Jenn:

Okay. Like I just really wanna talk about her a little bit. I'm gonna get like super weepy here because like

Jenn:

she was super cute. She was like the best, okay? She was the oldest of five. She was very close to her

Jenn:

family. All right? She was the kind of person people depended on. She managed a bar in Queens.

Jenn:

Not glamorous work, but you know, she's honest. She was building a life for herself and she was not building it

Jenn:

alone. She shared that life with her partner maryanne Lanko a relationship that in 1964 could not be very

Jenn:

public.

Jared:

True.

Jenn:

They had to live carefully. , But it was real. They lived together.

Jenn:

They made home together. They listened to music. They really liked to listen to records and spend time just

Jenn:

having these little moments together. They were building a future, and Kitty was not just loved at

Jenn:

home. She was really close to her neighbors. People like Sophia Ferra, who called help for her was somebody

Jenn:

that.

Jenn:

They had a really close friendship. And that part is not separate from the story. 'cause that is the story.

Jenn:

That's the part that matters. Yep. Woo. Not this bullshit article about how 38 people witnessed a murder

Jenn:

and did nothing. 'cause that's not true. Now did they do enough? No. No, they did not. Lesson learned.

Jenn:

If you see something, you say something that's, there's a reason those signs are out there. I think that's

Jenn:

actually about terrorism. It was, but still the point.

Jared:

It still applies.

Jenn:

Applies. It all applies. If you hear somebody screaming in the streets, you should call 9 1 1.

Jared:

Go with you. Yeah. Go and agree with you.

Jenn:

If you see a fire, if somebody's choking. Choking. Iss a thing.

Jared:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Jenn:

So this one makes me like the most sad. The whole thing about it is just the saddest, like she could have lived

Jenn:

maybe if they had called the police right away.

Jared:

Sure.

Jenn:

She might have made it, those first two. The, the first part of it was not fatal. Right.

Jared:

So is that the end of the story?

Jenn:

That's the whole story.

Jared:

Right? But then I ha Alright, then I have a question. See, I'm gonna surprise you. Whew. Let's,

Jared:

let's, no, let's, first

Jenn:

question,

Jared:

let's, I want to, let's go back to, I'm confused that we didn't talk much about this whole, um,

Jared:

bystander effect.

Jenn:

It's bullshit. Okay. That's the whole, now I'm not saying that the bystander effect isn't real.

Jenn:

I'm saying that it should not have been based off of this case. Because people did do something, A man

Jenn:

shouted down there,

Jared:

okay,

Jenn:

leave that girl alone. A man called the police. Now they didn't come out because, you know, I don't

Jenn:

know what police were doing in 1964, they were smoking cigarettes. And

Jared:

you can cut that part, this part out.

Jared:

'cause you're right,

Jenn:

okay,

Jared:

you're right, you're correct.

Jenn:

Space

Jared:

out. I was looking at, no, no, I was looking at it a different way. I really was, and my head was

Jared:

playing a little bit of a d so I'm with you. Once you said it again, I was like, okay, you're right. I just

Jared:

had to like circle back in terms of how my brain was headed down, but it wasn't the right path.

Jenn:

But I mean it's, no, I mean that's a valid point because it just felt like, so, I don't know how to say

Jenn:

this right,

Jenn:

honestly. I think that somebody just wrote an article because it was in New York City because a woman got

Jenn:

murdered. Not in the street, but she got attacked in the street and then later died. And the whole thought

Jenn:

is that, man, if somebody was getting attacked in the streets, wouldn't somebody help?

Jared:

Right.

Jenn:

Now I think it is weird that nobody did actually like go down there.

Jared:

Oh, I agree.

Jenn:

Now look, if somebody's waving a knife around, I'm not gonna go jump into a knife fight. Okay? I'm not

Jenn:

bringing a lemon to a knife fight. I like that song.

Jared:

I agree. You're not, you know, someone small like yourself, would you? Oh, yeah. I would you

Jenn:

go out there if somebody was

Jared:

with something? Yes. And I don't mean necessarily, like, I'm not saying if I had like, like

Jared:

a

Jared:

bat, right? If I didn't have a gun, if I wa, if I didn't have a gun and I was in your yard, yeah,

Jenn:

you've got a golf club.

Jared:

I'd go out there with something

Jenn:

that'd reach

Jared:

somebody for a knife Im not there and go,

Jenn:

oh no.

Jared:

Well that'll probably work out. Okay. No, not gonna happen.

Jenn:

Now, it's also clear that not everybody could, again, if you're looking from a tall apartment

Jenn:

building, you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell what was going on necessarily.

Jenn:

Think if you're like 10 stories up,

Jared:

you're gonna know what's going on. I disagree. You're gonna see a struggle and you're gonna know

Jared:

you're gonna, you're gonna be suspicious enough to go. Something's not that like that. That's off.

Jenn:

I'm also going to say he stabbed her twice and she screamed, and that's when people would've looked

Jenn:

down.

Jenn:

He didn't do it again. He was just like, struggling.

Jared:

Yeah, I that you're right. There's a, you're right.

Jenn:

You know what I mean?

Jared:

I hear you from that point.

Jenn:

So it's like you

Jared:

depends on how, how, how much was she struggling, you know, when she, when she walked off.

Jared:

How much was it like Ionis? Was it a crawl or was she truly getting up and you know, and stumbling?

Jenn:

She was walking, but she was stumbling. And that's another thing and that's why some people

Jenn:

thought. She was drunk.

Jared:

Yeah.

Jenn:

Or it was a domestic dispute. Just a bad

Jared:

situation, man.

Jenn:

And you know what? The domestic dispute thing really bugs me because, okay, let's say it was a

Jenn:

domestic dispute, right? And some man is slapping a woman around.

Jared:

Does that make it any

Jenn:

better? Explain to me why you wouldn't intervene in that shit right now. Look what happens between two

Jenn:

people if they're arguing is one thing. You raise a hand.

Jared:

It's fair game. In other words, too. Fair game. Meaning fair game for me to intervene is what I meant.

Jared:

That'd be very clear, fair game for the, for a person to intervene and go Uhuh.

Jenn:

It's like somehow calling it a domestic dispute makes it okay for, oh, that's their

Jared:

business, right? That's

Jenn:

their, that's their business.

Jared:

No,

Jared:

it's

Jenn:

not. Fair works.

Jared:

Nope. Not the way it works.

Jenn:

The only time a domestic dispute is nobody's business. If it's, if you're just having words.

Jared:

Right.

Jenn:

If you're throwing hands.

Jenn:

Yep. No, and look, here's the thing, I don't care who's the one throwing of the hands, man or woman. Just don't

Jenn:

hit people.

Jared:

Okay?

Jenn:

Yeah. I mean that's, look, I know this, this was a short one.

Jared:

It was,

Jenn:

gosh, this will be the first time I got an episode in under an hour, I guess. But maybe that's why

Jenn:

I wrote a lot more than I did. But, um, 'cause I didn't have any theories. We know who did it,

Jenn:

right?

Jenn:

It's more this silly bystander effect. And I don't know, this one just always stuck with me.

Jenn:

Every time I see pictures of Kit Genovese, sweet pictures of her where she's just, she just looks like a

Jenn:

little delight. She kind of reminds me of like an Aubrey Hepburn kind of a person. She's very small and

Jenn:

wee and just adorable.

Jenn:

Um, I don't get a call adorable very often. I think it's because I say the F word a lot.

Jared:

Fair.

Jenn:

It's kind of hard to be an adorable when you're just Yeah. Queuing rage and f-bombs. Yeah. So, okay.

Jenn:

That's, that's it.

Jared:

So tell everybody how you keep in touch with us and

Jenn:

Sure. So you can find us at the house of six on YouTube.

Jenn:

TikTok, my TikTok suck. Facebook. We're on, we're on the book of face, uh, the houseofsyx@gmail.com. If you

Jenn:

wanna make a suggestion, you can like, you can share because sharing is caring. We want you to share the

Jenn:

podcast with your cousin. That's homework for tonight. Mm-hmm. And, , yeah, we drop episodes every other

Jenn:

Tuesday.

Jenn:

So if this is, this is a Tuesday and you're listening to us, then check back next Tuesday. Uh, the Tuesday

Jenn:

after that. And then that's how, uh, we're gonna go away now. Thank you. And bye. Stay out of vestibules.

Jenn:

Bye

Jared:

bye.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

About the Podcast

Show artwork for The House of Syx
The House of Syx
True Crime. Weird History. Marital Discord

Listen for free

About your host

Profile picture for Jenn Syx

Jenn Syx

Jenn is the creator, writer, and co-host of House of Syx, a long-form podcast focused on history, art, and the psychology behind the stories we think we already know.
With a background in research-driven storytelling, Jenn approaches each episode with an emphasis on primary sources, historical context, and restraint. Rather than romanticizing tragedy or simplifying complex lives, she is interested in how people actually lived, failed, adapted, and were later remembered.

Her work often examines the space between public myth and private reality — particularly where mental health, legacy, and power intersect. House of Syx reflects her belief that the most compelling stories don’t need embellishment — they just need to be told honestly.

Support The House of Syx

A huge thank you to our supporters, it means a lot that you support our podcast.

If you like the podcast and want to support it, too, you can leave us a tip using the button below. We really appreciate it and it only takes a moment!
Support The House of Syx
A
We haven’t had any Tips yet :( Maybe you could be the first!